Warnings, and their appropriate usage

[pixel]

So I've been around in fandom a long time, and yeah we used to do things a certain way because that's how they were done. Except sometimes we get smarter and STOP doing them because hey, they're actually kind of offensive, or important for other reasons.

So, let me be blunt about this: IF YOU *WARN* FOR SLASH or 'GAY' or MORE OFFENSIVELY TERMED THINGS OF THAT NATURE? I WILL NOT BE READING YOUR FIC. Simple as that.

We no longer live in the age of mailing lists where people stumble into an email that they might not have intended to, (and even then, that's a bit flimsy) so let's stop pretending that people can't read headers and see pairings listed and know what the hell that means ok?

On the other hand, if you have dub-con fic that isn't labeled as such, being a very appropriate use for Warnings, I probably won't be reading any more of that particular fic or any others of your fic because you appear to have the self-awareness of a fly. Similarly, warning for violence against minority groups would be a good thing, not that I remember seeing anything like that un-warned recently, but still.

Lets break it down: we *don't* warn for people's (generally healthy, positive) sexuality, we DO warn for violence, dub-con and other triggery material.

Comments

[nan]

+1!

[rosehiptea]

Yeah, I remember when people did warn for slash and there are probably still a couple of fics of mine floating around out there that say that but it's very embarrassing to me now.

I can think of things that are healthy and positive that you'd want to note are in the fic because people may or may not feel like reading them even though they are positive, but that's not the same as plastering a warning on the fic.

[instantramen]

Ugh, yes to everything. I don't have any serious triggers, just squicks, but that doesn't mean I want to just wander into serious dub-con unawares. And if you're warning for slash (or het, which I've actually seen once or twice), I'm going to assume that you think I'm an idiot and have some issues to work through.

[megpie71]

I have the occasional warning for slash on my fic, mostly because I tend to find myself absolutely bamboozled by the notion of warnings, much less film or TV-style ratings, on written fiction in the first place. None of the novels I buy have film or TV-style ratings, or content warnings, and I'm living in Australia which is one of the more actively censored countries out there. So my "warnings" list is usually an enlargement on why something got the "rating" it did, and often I'm not taking things overly seriously (at least one of my characters in her native environment gets regular warnings on her fic for bureaucracy and paperwork) when I write them.

NB: This is not to say that I disagree with the notion of warning for things which might cause triggering or squick - it's just that both of these, to my mind, are such highly personal categories that if I tried to cover the full range of possibilities, I'd wind up writing more in the warning list than there was in the fic itself (or spoiling the fic via the warning list). I warn for common known triggers or squicks if I use them (which is probably where "slash" comes in as a warning, most likely) but most of the time, I'm not writing about them.

[pixel]

On a more helpful tangent, I don't tend to correspond warnings with TV style ratings and I find TV ratings confusing too. Warnings to me are a 'hey this is stuff you need to know about if you might have issues with particular categories of content' Thus the mentions of say, dub-con, and violence which can be triggering to some folks. I guess for me though various rl and fandom experiences, Warnings is serious business, anything else goes in Notes, so the Warnings label can function as intended. Actually this is probably one thing I love about AO3, 'Tags' is a catch-all for these kinds of things, without having to imply that 'oh you are squicked by gay' is in the same category as 'oh sorry about triggering some horrific personal experience.'

Ratings are different, and confusing, so I tend to guess conservatively, and often my slashier stuff gets higher ratings than maybe it deserves, but I'd do the same for anything explicit in my work.

[xpaperplanex]

I have, on occasion, warned for not slash because I didn't want people thinking I was writing about a (non-graphic) sexual relationship, when it was just a weird friendship and involved people younger than I'm comfortable writing about in a sexual relationship. I feared people reading the "characters" heading and assuming it also meant pairing. Or just not reading the header and assuming I was writing slash like I usually do.

But yeah, slash doesn't need a warning.

And if you're not going to warn for actual potentially disturbing content, at least warn that you're not warning. Sometimes you can't possibly cover everything that may or may not need a warning, and it's easiest just to let people know that they're proceeding at their own risk.

[rodo]

Actually, I don't mind that warning so much, because of a number of reasons: First, there's the fact that a lot of people use "warnings" to list things people might not want to read. And that includes slash, because, well, not everyone wants to read it. And especially on ff.net, someone might have expressed that in a way that made the author include it. I know LJ culture has moved on from the mailing list times, but not everywhere on the web has.

New people might not know what is done and not done and thus imitate what other people do in a not necessarily correct or appropriate way. Maybe they read mailing list era fic and copied that from there? I had been in fandom for months before I figured out what "slash" meant, even though I was reading slash fic (was I every thankful for a "gay" warning). So I'm likely to cut newbies (and oldbees why grew up in a different fanculture) some slack. On ff.net, "slash" in the summary, in whatever way, is also useful for people like me who search for it.

As I mentioned, not everywhere is LJ fandom. I hang out in other places too, and warning for slash is something you do because of a sizeable anti-slash usership. People warn for things like "angst", "drama" and other genres there too. It's not a judgement from the author's part and more of a general "warning, this fic contains X, proceed only if you want to read that".

In short: I blame the culture for this and not the individuals who generally only try to navigate their environment.

[pixel]

I guess, and here's the thing, I DO mind that warning. The best categorization for my own sexuality is gay. I don't appreciate the fact that someone's homophobic attitudes about me and people like me are at all in the same category as traumatic violent experiences. That's offensive to me.

I think including the proper list of pairings in a fic is the appropriate way to let everyone know what the fic is about, there's nothing confusing about that. Including the word slash in a summary, or notes section is appropriate if you feel it's needed, it's including it with warnings that I object to.

And maybe it's because this is more personal to me than it is to other people but, seriously, fuck the anti-slash homopobes. They can read just as well as the rest of us and see a paring label and KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, to avoid things they don't want. My entire real life is spent catering to these people so as not to offend them, and at least in fandom, I can say out loud that bowing down to privilege and phobia is bullshit and I won't support it.

I know it's something of a holdover from actual real life phobias etc, so I know where it comes from, and I've never pointed at anyone specifically, but I was hoping that ranting might get the word out. So maybe it happened in the past, it's time to get with the program and stop doing things when they're offensive.

[bearsinlove]

Warning for things that are triggering or squicky is fine, expected, and helpful. Warning for things that appear in the pairings list is rude and ignorant.

[megpie71]

Another thing which occurred to me last night as I was heading for sleep: in some fandoms (particularly Japanese-sourced ones) warning for slash actually is appropriate as a warning about the context of the relationship you're putting the characters into.

It all comes down to the differences between slash (the Western version) and yaoi (the Japanese version). Yaoi is a highly formalised type of relationship, with a lot of rules about the character types and roles associated with those roles. There is the seme and there is the uke, and never the twain shall switch their roles in a form of relationship which at times appears to echo the worst of patriarchal heterosex relationships (certainly a lot of "acceptable" seme behaviours appear to idolise all which is most toxic about patriarchal masculinity) and which comes with its own (rather twisted at times) power dynamic. Slash, to my mind, is a bit more flexible about roles, possibly because of the nature of the culture it grew up in, and offers the possibility of actual equality between partners, as well as the option of switching things up. It's possible to have two "seme" personalities in a slash relationship, or two "uke" personalities, or even two people who don't fit nicely into either category.

Certainly if I'm writing homosexual pairings in the Japanese game fandoms I favour, I'll tend to warn for the fact that I write slash rather than yaoi. (And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go edit a couple of labels to make it clear that's why I'm using that warning).

[megpie71]

If I knew I was writing in a community where there was a substantial body of readers who would forcibly object to inadvertently reading (for example) woman-on-top (or woman-as-top), and I wrote that, then yes, I would warn for it in headings. Mainly because that way the readers who are likely to throw tantrums about it don't have a legitimate leg to stand on with their complaints of offence - "if you don't like it, you don't have to read it" is a fair comment when there's clear warning for the disliked matter. It's less so (I feel) when a warning isn't clearly visible.

I might not feel particularly happy about having to put the warning there in the first place, but I also know I wouldn't feel particularly happy about having to deal with negative comments from nincompoops who'd be protesting about the lack of the warning, and/or how dare I do that to their precious favourite character etc. The problem here falls into the space where there's a compromise which needs to be made between my integrity as someone who doesn't have a problem with homosexual relationships as an entity and who feels people who do need to grow up a little; and my existence as a mentally ill person who really doesn't cope well with being the target of hostility. In such a situation, I will take steps to protect my mental health where necessary, and if those steps mean I have to do things which are somewhat distasteful to me personally, then so be it.